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In this episode Adam, Brett, and Jason reflect on the death of Pope Francis. As we concluded our series on the Treatise, news came out that Pope Francis died. How does one differentiate between the office and the individual? What is a healthy response to the death of someone with whom we disagree theologically? We grapple with these topics and more in this special episode.
I’m so bewildered after listening to this episode. Bewildered and a bit hopeless. If we are saved through faith, how can you not enthusiastically proclaim that Pope Francis entered into heaven just as you say Billy Graham has (and rightly so). I am so confused. He is the leader of millions of faithful Christians. He proclaims the Gospel, prays for hours every day, worships Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, yet you seem to suggest that he’s one of the”the wicked” for whom God takes no pleasure in his death. Did you compare him to Julius Caesar? If you can’t assure your listeners that a devoted disciple like Francis had enough faith to be saved and is loved enough by God to be received into eternal rest in heaven, I am doomed to hell – plain and simple. Nothing in my heart can possibly exceed the faith that this man held, and demonstrated by his deep love for the poor, and his public worship of God. He wasn’t perfect. Luther was not either – in fact very far from it, yet I thought he was redeemed by his faith. I know for certain I don’t have the faith of either of these men, and I know I don’t deserve to be redeemed, but I had hoped (before this episode) that I would be anyway- because Christ died for my salvation. But if a man like Pope Francis is not saved, there’s no saving a sinner like me either.
Hi Linda! Thanks for your question. One one hand, I agree with your sentiment simply because I don’t like to appear to be heaven’s gatekeeper. Only God knows the state of the heart. On the other hand, and simply for the sake of explanation, there is a distinction between Francis and Billy Graham. Graham, in spite of our disagreements with some of his doctrines, always confessed that we are saved by Christ alone. The Roman Catholic Church, and by proxy Francis, adds elements to Jesus Christ that are necessary for salvation. Insofar as Francis believed he was saved and forgiven by the blood of Christ, we will see him again in heaven. Insofar as he was depending on something else for salvation, assurance of salvation is removed. That is the distinction we were trying to get at in the episode.
I thought of one additional question. You referred to Francis as having “showy humility” – a phrase I have never heard before. What did you mean by this? Would you apply this to Ghandi, Mother Theresa and the Dali Lama as well? If not, what separates them from the Francis quality of humility? Thank you for considering my questions. My nephew is a LCMS pastor, but with a young family I hate to bother him with these pesky questions.
This was Adam’s comment, and I’ll let him answer it when he has time. He is currently on vacation, but I’ll try to make sure he sees this and has an opportunity to respond. Thanks again for the questions!