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On today’s episode, we play the audio from Rev. Sam Wellumson’s presentation at the 2017 FFLC Reformation Conference. The theme of the conference was “Justification”, and the title of Pastor Wellumson’s presentation was “Objective & Subjective”.
If you’d like to watch the video of the presentation, please click here: “Objective & Subjective Justification“
Would it be possible to get Sam’s handout available here?
E-mailed it to you.
I am an elder in the PCA who happens to be attending an LCMS Church at this time for a number of reasons. I started listening to these podcasts in an attempt to learn about our differences. Up to this podcast I have really enjoyed them. However, this sermon/presentation is one of the worst jobs of dealing with the very real differences between Lutherans and Calvinists on Limited Atonement I have ever heard. It deals with the issues as an incredibly surface level and that may be a product of the setting. I am sure the speaker did not have a lot of time to really develop the differences. This presumes he is capable of doing so in a scholarly way. The biggest complaint I have about this sermon/presentation is that it is by far the least charitable presentation regarding this issue I have ever heard. Actually using the term “manure” in discussing this topic is below the standards this podcast has set. One of the things I have appreciated about the podcasts is how gentle, meek, and charitable they has been. I presume that the majority of the future podcasts will continue that tradition and this one episode is an aberration.
I don’t mind people disagreeing with Calvinism because it can come across as being against so many of our beliefs. But it can be done in a way in which that is consistent with the command in I Peter 3:15. Would you be able to point me to one that actually deals with the best that the Reformed have to offer on this issue and is not a hit piece? Specifically, I would be interested in a real interaction with the Spurgeon quote which deals directly with the argument from double jeopardy.
As I wrote above, I expect that the overwhelming majority of the rest of your podcasts will continue the tradition of being gentle, meek, and charitable. So, I plan on continuing to listen to the rest of them. I hope that terms such as “manure” will not used.
J.T.,
Thank you for your comments. I apologize for any offense. One point of clarification: this was a presentation held at a yearly Reformation conference in my congregation. It was one of four 35 minute presentations in 2017. Technically, it is not an official episode from the content of the Being Lutheran podcast, but we used it on the podcast for filler when we were running behind on our normal recording schedule.
If you would like to interact with Pastor Wellumson on his presentation, I can put you in direct contact with him.
Again, thanks for your feedback, and we do apologize for any offense.
In Christ,
Jason
Jason,
Although I don’t mind engaging in a discussion with Pastor Wellumson, I am more interested in getting a hold of materials that demonstrate the best arguments that Lutherans have to offer against Limited Atonement. Hopefully, those documents will reflect a deep understanding of the Reformed teaching on the topic. I have always thought that unless one can stand up and make the argument they oppose they probably don’t need to speaking against it publicly.
So, a list of those documents or books would be really appreciated.
Your brother in Christ,
JT
JT,
Unfortunately, I don’t have an exhaustive list. It’s not something I’ve personally spent a lot of time interacting with. One source I would direct you to would be Pastor Jordan Cooper’s book, “The Great Divide: A Lutheran Evaluation of Reformed Theology”. It can be found here on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Great-Divide-Lutheran-Evaluation-Reformed/dp/1498224237/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1548777967&sr=8-3&keywords=Jordan+cooper
I wouldn’t say I was offended as much as disappointed. As I wrote before, I don’t mind disagreements. I actually welcome them so my beliefs can be sharpened and help me see my blind spots.
It would be great to interact with him on the topic. I am not familiar with the original languages and this discussion begs for that.
I know that Lutherans and Reformed have differences but they can probably be better dealt with in the manner that White Horse Inn deals with them and the way you guys have dealt with differences in your podcast: with gentleness and respect.
Thank you for the recommendation.
Have you had a chance to read “Between Wittenberg and Geneva: Lutheran and Reformed Theology in Conversation”? It is written by Robert Kolb and Carl Trueman. I am in the process of reading it. I wonder be interested in knowing what you think about this book and if you would consider Kolb a reliable Lutheran scholar.
Here is a link to the book: https://www.amazon.com/Between-Wittenberg-Geneva-Lutheran-Conversation/dp/0801049814/ref=asc_df_0801049814/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312721411869&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15913929581557539886&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028303&hvtargid=pla-338168524474&psc=1
I have not heard of that book, but I’ll put it on my list. I love Trueman. His book “The Creedal Imperative” was foundational in my understanding of the nature of confessions.
I do consider Kolb a reliable Lutheran scholar. I think his work is excellent.